In this podcast Tom Uren and Patrick Gray talk about the evolving relationship between Russian intelligence services and the country’s cybercriminals. The GRU’s sabotage unit, for example, has been recruiting crooks to build a destructive cyber capability. Tom suspects that GRU thugs are not so good at hands-on-keyboard operations, but excellent at coercing weedy cybercriminals to hack for the state.

They also talk about OpenAI’s report into malicious actor’s use of its models, and how Australia’s proposed cyber security law looks pretty sensible.