Tom Uren and Amberleigh Jack talk about the Pall Mall Process, an international effort to reign in abusive spyware. Tom thinks the US has already stumbled into a viable carrots and sticks style strategy that will shape the industry more than coming up with standards will.

The pair also discuss news that Chinese Salt Typhoon hackers compromised the calls of senior UK officials in Downing Street. The UK has extensive telecommunications security regulations and the incident makes us wonder what that legislation is actually good for.