Tom Uren and James Wilson talk about Tom’s trip to NATO’s Cyber Conflict conference. NATO countries want to bulk up their cyber efforts, and the pair discuss what that could look like.

They also look at the US military’s admission that commercial location data was used to target personnel involved in Epic Fury, the US war on Iran. This is not surprising at all, and is just the most visible manifestation of the national security risks of this kind of data sloshing around. If Iran is analysing this data in wartime, China is doing it in peacetime for intelligence and counter-espionage purposes.